Unfortunately I was not able to attend so Tom has put some information together.
Just a note which I’m sure most of you have heard. Gary Papa, Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson have passed away.
Commissioner Dougherty was not at the meeting. All votes were made by Mayor Teague and Commissioner Foley.
At the meeting, there were 5 ordinances up for vote.
1235 – Water shut off fees. This was tabled and will be reintroduced at the next meeting
1238 – Overnight parking – The Retrospect wrote a comprehensive article about this. http://tinyurl.com/nhw5wp
1239 – Alcoholic Beverages – Hours of operation – They extended the hours on Sundays for allow for our liquor stores to compete with the neighboring towns.
1240/1 – Capital improvement authorizations – The authorized $3,000,000 in capital improvements including new bonds to be issued
1242 – Salary ordinance – They gave 3.5% raises to the non union employees. I stood up and well as another citizen stating that in this current environment, we should not be provided raises unless they are merit based
All of these ordinances passed unanimously.
Two new ordinances were introduced
1243 – Special emergency appropriation – Property Revaluation Project – this is an ordinance to appropriate $530,000 to pay for a complete revaluation of the town’s real estate tax assessed values.
1244 – Amending Chapter 111 – Fees – Water and Sewer Connections – They are proposing yet another increase in fees. The increases look like they are generally about 10% except that they have over doubled the fees for new construction water and sewer connections.
Relating to resolutions they hired 3 new township employees. Interestingly, two of these people are people close to the commissioners. One is the son of one of their contributors and supporters. The other was a person who worked heavily on their campaign. That person is going to work for DPW. This was done even after George Purkins stood up last week and asked why they had bypassed a Military Veteran with a plumbing certification who has all the skills required to work in the Water and Sewer Department and that certification takes substantial effort to obtain.
There were a number of other contract related items also approved.
Relating to the contracts for Edison Woods Drainage Improvements, the solicitor read a statement which stated that the bidding process could be construed as flawed and they will be rejecting all bids and asking for new ones. This occurred after the 2nd lowest bidder challenged the lowest bidder.
They also talked about liquor licences. They renewed all of the licences except one. Also Rexy’s will be transferring its license to a new owner and there is a special meeting on July 7th at 4PM to discuss that. They also stated that there are 3 “pocket” or inactive licences including the one owned by Joanna Pang.
I brought up a couple of issues during the public portion. One related to the Bird Sanctuary situation. They removed the deed restriction on it but didn’t vote on any of the other related transactions including the land donation. They clarified that this lifting of the deed restriction would only be signed in connection with the remainder of the transaction.
I also brought up the fact that NJ OPMA law required that the minutes of their meetings be release prior to the next meeting. I agreed to send them the case law on this and asked if they would look into it. They agreed. Currently, minute meeting are not made available until 2 meetings after the meeting. This is clearly a violation of the law. Here is the link I sent them. http://njopengovt.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-jersey-cases-regarding-prompt.html
Mary Burko asked about when we would see construction at Dydee and the Mayor said it was still a while off because of the environmental clean up. I asked whether they could get Fieldstone to put all their new plans up on the web which they had promised to do at the last planning board meeting.
Filed under: Uncategorized |
Twp of Haddon 
Not only are they having pay increases I heard they pay people that aren’t even employed anymore(not once but twice) Gee isn’t that Betty Band’s job? Yep a previous pool employee was cut two paychecks even though Denise was informed prior to the second paycheck.
Also I had heard that Betty tried to bump a returning employee for someone new. Don’t know who the new person was.
Saw in The Retrospect that Haddonfield did give increases but only 2.75%. I don’t understand in these tough times why our town could not adjust the pay scale.
You are intellectually dishonest to feign surprise over pay increases that were budgeted and presented in prior meetings.
If you’re truly surprised, that only demonstrates sincere incompetence.
not surprised at all just disappointed that they decide to increase pay when many residents are in a pay freeze and hard economic times.
St. Evelyn you are a complete shill for the commissioners.
Let me explain how the real world works for those of us taxpayers.
I had a budget planned out this year. I budgeted some money to take a vacation and to get some things. But then the biggest recession in my lifetime hit, my company is laying people off, and my retirement fund is down 40%. So guess what? I didn’t spend the money I budgeted due to my fiancial emergency. I didn’t get a raise, and I probably won’t get a bonus this year — all things that normally happen and are budgeted for.
So… a real leader and responsible team would have held off on the budgeted payroll increases given the emerging fiancial DISASTER we are in.
Did Randy Teague act like a responsible leader, stand up, and say guess what we are holding pay raises that were budgeted due to the biggest recession in recent history?
NO HE DID NOT. Randy Teague and his pals reached out with their greedy, grubby little hands, passed a pay raise when all of us taxpayers are losing jobs, losing money. Then they at the same time passed more fee increases on us.
SHAME ON THEM. and shame on you for being such a shill and acting like a planned budget is binding. People go under and over budget all the time based on leadership decisions. Randy Teague just made a leadership decision. He needs to stand up and be a man of character and at least accept responsibility for it. don’t blame it on the planned budget. THAT is intellectually dishonest. Randy Teague did not have to pass the pay raise just because it was budgeted.
St Evelyn quick run and ask randy how you should explain this one away. Randy Teague is showing poor leadership, poor character, and I am embarrassed for him and his supporters.
It’s so easy to spend other peoples money, isn’t it?
“R” andy “T” eague = “R” aise “T” axes
Could someone in the know please post the names of every employee that will receive this pay raise?
Each and every person getting the pay raise should be called on to decline it. It is our money.
As far as I understand it all non contracted employees receive this raise.
Mayor Teague stated that “they” have received complaints about parking and that one reason for changes.
Well they are also getting complaints about the new fees.
Which one of their campaign supporters complained about the parking, and why does that carry more weight than all of us little people complaining about the new fees?
I saw people stand up at the meeting and complain about the fees. I didn’t see one person ask for the fees. Is Randy Teague telling another “Randyism” to get through this moment? Kind of like when he looked at those seniors at the meeting calling him on his broken promises and claimed it wasn’t so. Oh Randy Randy Randy what happened to you?
Is there a discount if we contribute to their campaign? Maybe 20% off or BOGO?
from a resident to our leaders
Good morning gentlemen,
As quoted from the Retrospect article on 06/26/09, Mayor Teague said, “Perhaps, he suggested, vehicle owners will come up with alternatives to reduce their use of overnight parking.”
I live in the Bettlewood section of Haddon Township. I have a driveway big enough to fit one vehicle. I have my van, and my husband has his car. Downsizing to only one vehicle is not an option.
Other residents on my street and in our neighborhood don’t even have a driveway, so they have no other option BUT to park on the street in front of their homes.
So, how do you suggest my neighbors and I come up with an alternative to our use of overnight parking??? Maybe we should think about parking our vehicles in front of YOUR homes. Or maybe we can clear a section of the Newton woods and park down there. How about those suggestions for you, gentlemen?
Perhaps, Mayor Teague, you should think before you speak, especially when talking to the press. Your comments were condescending and thoughtless. At the very least, you might have suggested an alternative or two for those of us who have no other option but to park on the street.
And by the way, our street is one of the last to be plowed after a snow fall, if it gets plowed at all. To make that a reason to charge a fee is ridiculous, considering we’re lucky if we get one significant snow fall per year in the first place. This sounds like just another excuse to squeeze as much money out of the residents as possible, while touting how great you are to give the residents a tax decrease. Well, my tax “savings” just got eaten up by this new fee. Thanks for nothing, gentlemen.
It sounds like this fee did not take into consideration the hardships this would cause for some residents
Randy Teague just let it slip what he really thinks. He, John, and Paul look down on the little people. Just watch them sit up their during the meetings with their chubby smirks and their solicitor with his interesting billing practices. Then the pass pay raise to their employees.
These guys and their smug little gang make me sick.
3 of us stood up in opposition. No one stood up in favor. It is obvious they just don’t care if it doesn’t cost them personally. Their explanations are just ludicrous. This ordinance covers 4 hours per day. The snow is not so discriminating as to when it falls. Are they only plowing until 6AM when the cars can be back on the street? Oy vey.
And the”complaints” they are receiving? Well, I have never seen any enforcement of the existing regulations in my neighborhood. Maybe if they had enforced the old ordinance, there wouldn’t be so many complaints. So they could have dealt with these complaints by doing their jobs of enforcing the law.
And there are additional unanswered questions. If you got your current 3 year permit, is it now null and void? Is it good for another 2-1/2 years or do you have to march down to the township building with a check in hand (or a wad of cash).
Here is my best way for all of you who are required to pay to protest. Many of you have change jars. Empty them out and fill a new jar with pennies and nickels (no dimes they are too easy to count) and pay your new fee with the change. Make the township employees waste their time counting out all the change. Maybe they will tell the town how many people are protesting this way.
It is kind of like the peaceful protests they are attempting in Iran. Like the Ayatollahs, our leaders just don’t care and listen to the public comments in making decisions.
Or you could do this…
http://tinyurl.com/cfoe4d
The snow excuse isa Randyism. Most towns with a snow problem designate snow emergency routes — in event of snow no parking on designated routes.
Obviously snow not the reason.
The real issue here is why won’t Randy Teague stand and explain his motives and accept public accountability?
Can anyone post the names of the employees that will get this crazy pay raise?
We should call on them to return it back. If Randy won’t do the right thing maybe they will.
It is our money
Just call Betty Band and ask her since she is head of personnel. Based upon what was described by Denise Adams, both she and Betty are recipients.
There is no way they would turn these increases down to reduce their state pensions when the retire on our nickel.
Can list of personnel be obtained by OPRA? If so it should be and every name posted for all in town to see.
Sure. Just wait about 2 weeks and ask for a list of all the employees who obtained retroactive pay increases based upon the new ordinance passed this week. You do realize that the pay increase is retroactive to January 1, right? Why put in a pay increase from today forward like the private sector does, when you can give the employees an increase which goes retroactive and effective give them a little mid year “bonus”. The least they could have done is made them effect currently. Get the picture?
there may be a privacy laws protecting the employee i would not want my salary told to every one can every one on this blog give their salary like tom and jen and st e and the anon’s hell i am just 1 person i make 42000 a year so every one lets see the numbers
Township salaries are public information
a suggestion – submit an OPRA request for the list of ALL Township of Haddon employees effective July 1, 2008 – the list would show their job title and salary.
then submit an OPRA request for the list of ALL Township of Haddon employees effective August 1, 2009 (submit in Sept 2009) and that should also show their job title and salary.
compare the lists
these individuals are paid from taxpayers money – it is not a “privacy” issue.
It is all public record. Actually, you can go onto the Courier Post website and find last year’s salary for every township employee. It is available right on the web.
http://tinyurl.com/nyhsls
You see, Jamie, when you are a public employee, your salary information is public.
Was this retroactive because a contract was not in place by January 1 and they continued to negotiate for the past 6 months?
This not a contract. They usually do it about this time every year and then make it retro to Jan. 1st
Thanks for the link Tom. So, does this part time job add to John Foley’s pension? And the other two will wind up with a small pension?
It sure does add to his pension. Dougherty isn’t taking a salary so he has foregone his pension and Teague will get one I beleive but am not 100% sure.
They made the excuse that until the Budget was passed, they didn’t put in the salary increases for these people. This was for all the people who didn’t have contracts, not the unionized employees. The decision to increase salaries retroactive to 1/1/09 was the commissioners. They didn’t have to do that.
Interestingly, they did the same thing last year, in May even though last year they passed a salary ordinance in December 2007 for 2008.
Most interestingly, if you go through the old ordinances, THE NEW ORDINANCE HAS HIGHER SALARIES FOR ALL THE COMMISSIONERS. The cat is out of the bag now, guys.
Commissioner Foley said he had foregone the raise this year. We understand the Commissioner Dougherty only gets health benefits but no salary. Mayor Teague was silent at the last meeting as to whether he has taken raises after pointing out that Foley has.
but crickets on what you all make and i guess none of you have had a raise in the last few years if you do your job a cost of living increase should be justified
Mine is not public information but yes our company had a salary freeze this year as did many companies this year.
jamie we dont take taxpayer dollars
welcome to planet earth
i didn’t get a raise this year and i bet most others didnt either
lets get the names of those townshp employees up so every taxpayer can let them know what we think of them
mayor teague was silent when asked if he was giving himself a raise?
well then lets just OPRA and find out shall we?
I’m sick of these three and sorry i voted for them.
and why is the pay raise RETROACTIVE?
and shut up about cost of living increase — tell that to those of us laid off and not getting our bonuses. and these jerks thing they should give themselves bonuses?
post each and every name and the amounts so we can thank them for taking OUR money during this recession.
jerks
Well, today is the court hearing date for the lawsuit alleging OPRA/OPMA violations. As of this morning, the town has not admitted any wrongdoing and I have not agreed to any of their suggested settlement items to narrow the issue. At this point there are 4 issue to settle.
The main reason for today’s hearing is that our solicitor, Klineburger, is going to testify because the judge insisted. Simply, Klineburgers sworn statement to the court was totally inconsistent with every other piece of evidence presented to the court. Basically, all the documents, including the recording of the mayor during a public meeting, show that 2 commissioners met with him about various undisclosed township matters. After the lawsuit was filed, he and the township changed their story. Instead of together, he wrote that they only met separately, never together. And mayor said on the record they met but that it didn’t violate the law. Who to believe? So I, through my attorney, will have the opportunity to cross examine him, a day he probably never expected when his partner threatened me with the lawsuit year ago. Well hopefully today the judge will listen and decide today whether Mr. Klineburger is telling the truth.
In addition, there was a full open meeting of the commissioners on 2/3/09 at 6:20 discussing the budget in detail that was never advertised. The town wants to brush this mistake under the table basically. They do not dispute any of the facts.
I am also requesting that they properly redact the executive minutes since they came into office which they have yet to do. They made an attempt to disclose the information they blacked out (redacted), but I want to see the actual minutes and I want them to learn how to do their jobs properly so that no one in the town has to go through this in the future. Citizens of the town should expect them to follow the law.
Lastly, they are overcharging for the recordings and they have an ordinance which basically violates the law. We would like them to change the existing ordinance to put it in compliance with the law.
I will report back after court today with an update.
How did court go? Keep up the good work.
are they in jail? the little people want to know
Not just shortie but the rest of us
Oh Tommy, come out and play.
The judge had to leave at 4 PM. Klineburger was 15 minutes late because of another court conflict, I think. Klineburger was examined by my lawyer as he explained how despite the facts his bills said he met with more than one commissioner, he really didn’t meet with them together. He also attempted to explain how he billed over 24 hours in a day (the defense curiously brought up this subject). He also stated that he didn’t show up until 7PM for the “second” meeting. The judge has still not listened to the tape of the 2/3 meeting. As a result we have another court date scheduled on July 30th in the afternoon. Additionally, the town lawyers have agreed to go through the minutes of all of the executive session meetings and actually arrive at the reasons for the redactions and properly redact the bills. This is basically an an admission of guilt that they (Klineburger) didn’t do it correctly in the first place.
July 30th has come and gone. What’s the update?
Sounds like when you come down to it regardless of your spin Tom there is nothing to your case.
Your “spin” on it isn’t true. My case is solid.
It is progressing nicely from my perspective. It just isn’t resolved fully. The Judge is doing a good job moving it forward. It is working its way through the system and the town is starting to fall in line as I expected they would. The judge thwarted their attempt to ignore the redaction rules of OPRA and the town’s attempt to improperly disclose public information relating to the executive session meetings. None of the issues are off the table. I hope that we have total resolution by the end of the month.
if judge having a third hearing on it then the case has some merit
If the judge finds that Klineburger made errors that caused any part of this lawsuit and town is found to be guilty can we expect Klineburger to be fired?
I mean if the court finds the town was wrong in all of this should Klineburger have to go since one issue is how he allegedly redacted OPRA information?
Regardless of if he was a campaign donor or even if he is a friend the right thing to do if they are found guilty is to get a new solicitor in there.
For what we the taxpayers are paying Klineburger we expect better quality work and a better attitude towards the people at the meetings.
Cassel you should mail a copy of the court case to all local municipalities so they understand OPRA laws and are aware of Klineburger’s alleged involvement in this in case he applies for another job as solicitor.
If his billing system full of errors has he examined all of his clients bills for similar errors or did he only make mistakes when billing us the taxpayers?
Again I say if Klineburger is saying part of the problem is his billing system did that happen with all of his clients or only to us the taxpayers?
Did Klineburber’s billing errors happen to all of his clients or only when he was billing the taxpayers?
Do other people in his firm use the same billing system?
seriously
If klineburger did not properly do redactions and town now agreeing to go back and do it AGAIN the right way — will the taxpayer be reimbursed for the time Klineburger billed to do it wrong?
Will the taxpayer be billed AGAIN by Klineburger while he tries to do it AGAIN the right way?
How much longer Randy gonna keep this guy on the payroll?
Anon had good point.
We got to pay to park in front of our houses. Cause Mayor said people complained about parking.
How many people need to complain to get rid of this lawyer that is causing us so much money?
Hey Ho Hey Ho Klineburger has got to go
Riddle me this-
If there are 24 hours in a day how can you bill for more than 24 hours in a day?
What was his fancy explanation again? Cassel wrote that Klineburger attempted to explain how he billed the taxpayers for more than 24 hours in a day.
Did he do more than 24 hours work in a day? If not was his bill an error? Are the taxpayers getting any money back?
Hey Ho Hey Ho Klineburger has got to go
Is Klineburger billing for the time he spends in court explaining his shenanigans?
Hey Ho…
.
Thoughtful input as always St. Evelyn.
Anonymous… Your contributions to the converasation clearly demonstrates you’re not qualified to clear the table at a Mensa meeting.
St. Evelyn pay for a spellchecker
You meant to write “Your contributions to the conversation clearly demonstrate”
It is hard to keep track of when to use plurals but now that school is out for the summer you can probably find a 3rd grader to help you
Or ask Randy to proof when you are posting whatever he tells you to write
A) Spell checker? Try grammer checker
B) Learn how to conjugate a verb before you offer your lame analysis
C) You are the LAST person to offer spelling advise.
D) You’re still not qualified to clear the table at a Mensa meeting
I like D. May I steal it and call it my own?
I stole it, so go ahead
newsflash st. evelyn not every anon poster is the same…
Jimmy “anonymous” Olsen,
Your point, Sport?
Since there seems to be interest, I’ll be co-hosting the next dinner meeting of MENSA, on Friday, August 7, 6:00, at the Coastline Restaurant on Brace Road in Cherry Hill.
Guests of MENSA members are always welcome to join us, and we think the people who clear the tables are wonderful.
St. Evelyn stop trying to rise above your station.
Your intelligence is moderately above average at best. You don’t realize it because of your inherent intellectual limits (not your fault) but your posts (particularly the longer ones you used to make when you were claiming to be in New Zealand) betray the complexity (or lack) of your thought process.
Nothing wrong with being just moderately above average — it’s still above average.
Now back on topic. What do you think of this Klineburger situation? We want your thoughts, not what Randy tells you to post. If you can venture a cogent thesis we will excuse your spelling.
Thanks so much.
I would not fire him. I would not replace him.
What else would you like to know?
I thought the Mayor said we would be saving money by hiring Kilneburglar.
That is some brilliant insight.
Klinteburglar! That’s so rich. Do you write jokes for Letterman?
Say, will you be the keynote speaker at the MENSA meeting on Friday, August 7, 6:00, at the Coastline Restaurant on Brace Road in Cherry Hill?
St. Evelyn why are you so obsessed with MENSA? Sounds like some inferiority issues you are grappling with. Didn’t you listen to Mr. Rogers? He likes you just the way you are.
You do get credit for once again hijacking the topic of the blog to divert attention from the issues at hand.
Back on track:
Any updates on the liquor license issue in the town and the special meeting about the transfer of the license?
Is the poolhouse still in danger of falling like when the Mayor had people waving chunks of concrete like cheap high-school theater props at the meeting? No really he did you had to be there to believe it.
And most importantly:
St Evelyn if the courts of Camden County find that Tom Cassel was right will you join the honest citizens in standing up and asking Randy Teague, Paul Doughert, John Foley to clean up their act? If Klineburger is found to have made the alleged mistakes do you propose he step down? Should the taxpayers have to pay for his mistakes?
St Evelyn you and Randy can giggle about your silly posts, but unfortunately the courts will hear these issues. These questions will be asked, and they will be answered. The only question is at what time. It will be a fun ‘meet the candidates night’ next election.
You think Cassel is the only citizen that has a gripe with these guys? Now that he has shown the way, and now that people are aware that honest attorneys will take these cases on a contingency basis, you’ll be seeing a lot of Haddon Township in court. Welcome to 2009.
Obsessed with MENSA? You review spelling, conjugate verbs and diagram sentences on a blog and I’m obsessing? Please.
So the state of the poolhouse is not an issue or is it? I can’t tell from your remarks. The only thing that is clear is you want to bash commissioners, but where’s the beef?
And as to “most importantly”… I’ve not seen the complaint, but I think it’s Superior Court, not Courts of Camden County. I mean if you’re going to get technical about conjugating verbs, why stop there?
Will I join “honest citizens”? So therefore anyone who disagrees is dishonest? They don’t have a differing opinion, they’re just dishonest. Mmm.
If Klinebuger (not Klineburgler?) made mistakes? Is that part of the official complaint? “Your honor, Klineburger or Klineburgler made mistakes. How do you find?”
I thought the complaint was against the Commissioners? Is it? I don’t know. Why?
Because the complaint has NEVER been displayed on the blog. NEVER. Mmm
Now, you can display the alleged billing mistake. You can display the alleged evidence that show there defininitly… not possibly… but definitely shows there was a hush, hush, mush, mush SECRET meeting among commissioners but you can’t show the complaint that outlines in step by step logical fashion your case. Mmm
Is something being hidden?
I don’t know, but I’ll tell you what… Diagram my sentences, check how I conjugated my verbs, check the spelling… Have your home health aid review your work, then have her wipe the drool from your chin. Take a big sip of kool aid and write me in the morning.
Oh and don’t forget… Kathy Hogan will be co-hosting the next dinner meeting of MENSA, on Friday, August 7, 6:00, at the Coastline Restaurant on Brace Road in Cherry Hill… maybe you can be her SPECIAL guest.
g’night
St. Ev – email me and I will send you the complaint. It’s no big deal. Or go down to the camden county courthouse where superior court meets and get a copy. Or OPRA the complaint from the town. Denise Adams and Richard Klineburger have it. If you wanted the complaint, you would have it.
I don’t want the complaint.
The point I was trying to make is that the Complaint is the foundation of your case. It outlines details for the judge. Why not outline the details for your audience?
Your sycophants accept what you say without reading the complaint. That’s what sycophants do. (Anon, you don’t have to check the spelling on that, I already did)
I’ve acknowledge some of the commissioners sloppines so I’m not saying your case lacks merit.
I am saying, YOU show us the case and guide us through it, otherwise it just looks like bomb throwing.
“Your sycophants accept what you say without reading the complaint.”
I have sent copies of the complaint to several people, any of whom could be posting anonymously on here. I have no idea and neither do you. As usual, you make an ignorant generalization.
You have read all of my posts which are the basis of the case. I am not concerned with what you think in any way regarding whether or not I post it on the web. I am concerned with what is being presented in court. If YOU are so interested, I gave you 3 ways to obtain the complaint. Go to Camden. File and OPRA and go the Municipal Building. Email me. You are obviously not THAT interested.
“sycophant n. A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.”
The last time I checked, I was not very influential. Nor do I believe that any people who post here are “servile self seekers”. Again, you are misusing words to try to show how smart you are. It shows the opposite to anyone who is truly educated.
Back to real topics of how our town is being run.
Did anyone notice that the town put out a request for affordable housing developers on the homepage of the website for the site behind Elmer’s autobody. They issued this to try to deal with COAH issues relating to Russell Cast Stone and Dydee which have been stopped in their tracks until the COAH issues are resolved according to the last Commissioner’s Meeting and the Planning Board.
They didn’t even give a decent description of the property or zoning in the ads. The developers can hardly tell where the property is. Wouldn’t it make sense to point developers to the web and have a map so they can see it? Why would they even consider it unless they had all the details? Did they send copies of this to the top 25 affordable housing developers in the state (which is probably the entire universe)? This is a very small specialty industry and all of the players are known.
Then they had the ignorance in today’s climate to require the developers to pay for a copy of the package. Why not just post the whole package on the web for free? Aren’t we trying to attract developers on an open basis. Actually, by requiring payment for the package, you are in fact excluding the free dissemination of information to the public which contradicts my philosophy of open and transparent government. What are the commissioners hiding by their process?
I sent an email to the mayor about this and expressed my concern for charging when Collingswood provided its latest request for developers for free and it was available on the web.
I don’t oppose that they are doing this. I only think that after 2 years in office, maybe they would start to learn how to do it better and more transparently.
Sending the complaint to people who are sympathetic doesn’t encourage debate… it’s just fertilizer for your sycophants.
On the one hand you refuse to post the complaint and defend it and on the other hand you condemn commissioners for a lack of transparancy.
I would think talking out of both sides of your mouth would hurt after a while.
St Evelyn you are such a shill for Randy.
Cassel offered to email you the complaint and showed you where you can get it.
Let me explain this to your level St Evelyn. Part of the court case deals with the manner in which the town’s solicitor redacted information pertaining to the OPRA request. Part of the court case involves decisions based on Klineburgers advice (i.e. were meetings legal or not legal.) Obviously the judge has Klineburger on the stand for a reason.
If Klineburger’s advice to the town was wrong he should go.
simple as that
Anonymous Sycophant (1),
Talk about shilling…
Obviously you’ve either not mastered reading as a fundamental skill or reading retention is not your forte.
Let me write it again, but this time, I’ll type slowly so you can follow.
I… don’t… want… the… complaint… (Now I’ll wait while your home health aid explains thsi to you)
OK? Ready to continue? Take a sip of your kool-aid while I type. (Keep your Fisher-Price spell checker nearby… I might mispell a word… I know that makes you happy… can you spell “happy”… that’s good)
Now, if you want to explain an element of the Complaint, you would look so much smarter (and we all know that’s your goal and we’re pullin for ya buddy!) if you would post the complaint, reference the part you want explain and then move away while we all bask in the warmth of your intelligence.
Can ya do that buddy? Sure ya can!
Transparency? I post with my name. You?
If you don’t want the complaint, why do you continue to ask me to post it up on the web. I am being 100% transparent in offering to email it to anyone who asks, not just those who are “sympathetic”. You just keep your transparent spin going.
Do you support the commissioners creating an RFP that is not 100 % free to anyone who asks? Is that transparent? This isn’t the first time they did this. They did this for the RFP to tear down the Marquis. This is an RFP to cast out a wide net for an affordable housing developer in a challenging era when it is exceedingly difficult to get any development started or done. I am not questioning their motives, only their methods.
Now who’s spinning.
Transparency of the issue is my focus, not who the author is. The only motive to revealing my secret identity is to possibly shift the focus away from your idea.
I asked to post it so we can debate it… in front of everyone… sycophants and shills alike.
“Do you support the commissioners creating an RFP that is not 100 % free to anyone who asks?”
I don’t know.
How much are they charging?
How much does it cost to provide anyone who asks?
How much did it cost to put together?
Do you ask the questions of the commissioners because you want answers or because, as I suspect, you’re looking for every opportunity you can find to bad mouth them?
I really don’t care who you are. You can go to Denise’s office and ask to see the lawsuit. It is available I am sure. It is OPRAable. When I want info, that is what I do. Unfortunately, you are not special.
You ask a series of totally irrelevant questions. Here is the only question to ask. Why isn’t the affordable housing RFP 100% transparent. You yourself said that transparency is your focus out of one side of your mouth and in this case it isn’t and you say I don’t know. The town has a COAH problem and they are trying to attract a developer. In my experience, developers in a competitive situation are also looking for transparency.
If they PDF the proposal, it is free to all. It is available to all if posted on the website. The town has a scanner. This is 2009 not 1999. How is the public supposed to understand what they are doing if they don’t make it freely available. Actually, do they even want the public to fully understand it? Based upon the meetings that I go to where little of substance is discussed in public, I have questioned their motives. Actions speak louder than words. I hope that this discussion creates actions to make this process more transparent. Or they can continue to operate as they have, and I will give my opinion which is 100% clear.
I was asked a question. I responded. My response made reference to your Complaint.
You offered to email it. I said I don’t want it, I want a discussion of it, but you don’t want a discussion or else you post your Complaint. Some transparency.
The RFP is $25. If you’re a serious developer, $25 won’t break you. If the $25 fee is onerous (get your spell checker out) you probably don’t have a balnce sheet strong enough to be bidding on the project.
If you really feel it’s an impediment to the town’s progress, pay the $25 and post the RFP online. That would show them.
St. Evelyn,
Stop your game of verbal three-card monte.
Any time you are pinned down to give a straight answer on some real issues you either start shouting about MENSA and Kathy Hogan or raise some silly argument with Cassel.
It is alleged that:
1) The current commissioners held meetings that violated the law due to the fact that by their nature they involved the practice of government behind closed doors away from the pesky public.
2) Attorney Richard Klineburger, the solicitor for the township submitted bills that contained errors. One such document billed for over 24 hours of work in one day.
3) A judge asked Klineburger to appear in court to offer explanation of his actions related to aspects of a lawsuit that stemmed, in part, from the above.
4) The citizens of this town are apparently paying a fairly reasonable wage to Klineburger to provide legal advice to the commissioners. It is alleged his advice may have been wrong (hence the above lawsuit).
IF (and it is a big “if”) the lawsuit is settled in favor of Cassel and his attorney, will you have the character and integrity to stand up and recognize that something needs to change in this administration? At a minimum, Klineburger should be removed IF it is found that Cassel’s allegations are accurate.
And all of the above just relates to Cassel’s lawsuit, which is just the tip of the iceburg here.
The seizure of public property for private developers? An article posted on this blog clearly shows that Dougherty said during the campaign that he did not believe such actions required as part of the contract with Fieldstone. So why are they drooling over Sulock’s property now? Did Dougherty decide his statements during the campaign were incorrect, or did he knowingly make incorrect statements? Which one is it?
The Theater? Teague caught red-handed when the township engineer issued a RFP for people to remove the marquis. There was a large article in the retrospect about it. They stated the marquis was in immediate danger of falling. Surprise, maquis still there. Under Teague’s watch little (if any) maintenance appears to have been done to maintain the property.
The Poolhouse? Once again Randy issued a Teague of a statement — he had people show up at the meeting waving chunks of concrete and screaming the poolhouse falling. They quickly decided to allocate a LARGE (as in over a million when all done) sum of money to work on the poolhouse. They did the above with NO PLAN on what to do. Guess what? They allocated the money and the poolhouse still standing and being used. If poolhouse so dangerous why are they using it? Or maybe it it possible the danger was only another Randyism to get through the public meeting? Guess we will never know the real motives since we can’t get the minutes to their alleged secret meetings.
Taxes? These guys passed a pay RAISE when the rest of the country is in the grips of the worst recession of our lives. Now hold on St. E. you will say the raise was budgeted. You are right it was — but that doesn’t mean they had to spend it. A real leader says ‘hold on here, we are in a national financial crisis lets hold off on spending that money we budgeted.’ But nope — Randy just signed off on writing the checks. So easy to spend OUR money, isn’t it?
They patted themselves on the backs for a tax cut. But with the other hand they are now going to charge us to park in front of our houses (when a lot of homes don’t have driveways — hello Bettlewood?) And they raised fees on a number of other items. So the tax-cut was another slick-Randyism: it is possibly more expensive to live in this town now then when Randy took office. Especially if you have multiple drivers in the hosue or live in a home without a driveway.
These guys pledged good clean government. It was on their campaign website, but all traces of that appear to have disappeared from the internet. Does anyone have a copy of their campaign promises? I challenge you to demonstrate if they kept even 30 percent of them. The way they have passed out jobs to their buds and campaign donors had been established. Cassel wrote an article about it for the Courier Post and was threatened with a lawsuit by an associate of Klineburger — guess he hit a nerve with that one, eh?
And you St. Evelyn — no doubt you will get on the phone with Randy and giggle up some way to post something that really has no substance but will attempt to just derail the conversation. You may even use your thesaurus to come up with some varied verbage in your continued quest to rise above your intellectual station. But I doubt you will offer serious discourse on the above, because just like the elected officials you apparently post for, you appear to lack any sort of intellectual integrity.
When you call Randy tell him we’re excited about the next meet the candiates night
Anonymous Sicophant (1),
OK, I get it. Home Health Aid is gone for the night, you found the computer, poured yourself a tall kool aid, got your big boy pants on, found your tin foil hat and now your ready for a conversation.
Well buddy why don’t you finish putting the tin foil on the windows so the commissioners death rays don’t get ya because I just got in from a night of fishing and I’m tired. I’m gonna get some sleep now and I’ll answer you tomorrow.
Why don’t you get some fresh batteries for your spell checker. Ya missed a word in my last post and I set it up just for you.
G’night buddy.
Anonymous Sicophant (1),
I’m back.
“It is alleged that:…” and you state four allegations. Show em. Post the complaint. I’ll read it and then we can debate. You won’t. You lack the testicular fotitude.
“will you have the character and integrity to stand up and recognize that something needs to change”… When you develop the character and integrity to argue on a level playing field, then we’ll discuss my character and integrity. Post the Complaint and let’s see what you’re talking about.
Siezure of Public Property sucks… but if a prior administration committed them by contract, well you get the picture. Have you got a copy of the contract showing me to be wrong? Post it. Again, you won’t.
The Theater? The MARQUEE (it was late and you were working without your Home Health Aid nearby, I understand. I won’t tell anybody) is a hazard. The primary duty of any government is the safety of the citizens. The last thing anyone wants in a time of a fiscal pandemic is too waste taxpayer money on a fire trap.
The Poolhouse? Takling out of both sides of your mouth? You’ll hurt yourself. On the one hand, invest taxpayer money in a theater that has seen better days, and don’t invest money in a poolhouse that families use everyday of summer. I got a better idea. Sell the pool. I don’t believe government has a duty to provide pool service to citizens. Sell it. Zone it so it can’t have any other use, and let someone else run it at their expense.
Taxes? You gott a tax decrease when surrounding communities got an increase and employees got a 3% raise. Nothing earth shattering about 3% but it went to people and not a MARQUEE (tip: close your eyes and repeat the letters. It helps. Trust me.)
They raised fees? Well if you use services, you pay for them, don’t spread the cost of the services to every homeowner.
“Does anyone have a copy of their campaign promises?” How about a copy of the Complaint?
Cassel wrote an article? Please post a copy or link to it as I thought it was a comment on a blog. And while you’re at it post a copy of the threat. I’ve never seen it so I don’t really buy that it was all that threatening. Besides, there’s been no lawsuit.
And as for me calling Randy. I don’t have his number and I don’t think he has mine.
Did you get all those window covered in foil yet?
PS… I left you some spelling errors… Can ya find them, Buddy? Sure ya can!
Wouldn’t alleged mean these are issues in the court case but the case is still open and not resolved?
If the primary duty is the safety of it’s citizens why haven’t they either repaired or torn down the Marquee?
I don’t disagree that the pool house is in bad shape. Electric shocks were happening 2 years ago in the showers, however I would like to see a plan before approving $1 mil to replace it. Would you take out a loan for your house prior to any plans?
I was told (by Randy) in these economic times it wasn’t feasible to start on the pool house yet it’s ok for raises? Safety for our citizens?
The “tax decrease” is actually nothing when you figure the water and sewer increases and that does go to everyone. I think there have been 4 or 5 in 2 years.
I’m sure there are spelling errors so we don’t need to point that out. I haven’t posted in quite some time because I didn’t want to get in between St. Evelyn and all the anons and other posters.
I don’t necessarily agree with all the anons but seriously St. Evelyn if you want to debate the allegations why not OPRA them. Tom is a private citizen and does not need to post anything. Our government promised to be open and has not fulfilled this promise.
Alledged means accused but not convicted. What’s your point?
The point of my marquee remark was to compare Anonymous’ complaint that not enough maintenance has been invested in the marquee while too much may be invested in the pool house. Investing in the marquee is akin to polishing the silverware before the Titanic sinks. The whole building should come down if the marquee is any indication of the building’s structural integrity.
Would I take out a loan for my house prior to any plans? I qualified for a mortgage before I committed to a purchase. I don’t know if that’s the same thing, but setting aside (not spending, just setting aside) the funds in anticipation of a plan. What’s the harm?
Yeah, raises are OK. At 3%, they’re not outrageous. They’re not irresponsible. If the absence of raises there is a risk of increased employee turnover which would result in an incremental increase in employee costs (searching for new people, training) and the sum of those costs could exceed the 3% raise.
Some employee not getting a raise doesn’t improve your life anyone elses. If you’re not happy with your income, get another job or get a different job.
If you’re not happy with the cost of the poolhouse or how they plan to fix it, sell the whole pool and let some entrepreneur (Anonymous, could we get a spell check in Post #71?) take over
If you shower everyday and your neighbor showers every other day, why should he have to pay more in property taxes so you can have cheaper water/sewar rates?
There are spelling errors in the blog. I make them. Everyone makes them. But Anonymous Sycophant (1) ran out of ideas to argue so he had to make an issue of the fact I left out an apostrophe. Sorry… not really.
Mr. Cassel is a private citizen, but his comments are not. I won’t OPRA the Complaint. It’s his, let him post it and defend it in this Arena of Ideas… if he dares.
Wow. St. Eve takes a position. “Sell the pool”. Who would buy that piece of wetlands? It loses money. It doesn’t have a diving pit (actually my son’s favorite swim activity). According to the commissioners, it needs a new million dollar poolhouse.
Actually, I believe that having the community pool is one of BEST things that our town does. It is available at a modest cost to all of the township. I actually think it helps real estate values to attract younger families here. As an inner ring older community, our town was not planned with all the swim clubs that Cherry Hill has. Originally, the town had Crystal Lake (not the pool) as its swimming hole. Haddonfield’s private club has a multiyear waiting list. Collingswood has a community pool. Or like Oaklyn. http://tinyurl.com/n64mce
Actually, most of the swim clubs around here are privately “owned” by their members. You wouldn’t sell it, you would establish an independent board to run it and transfer it to the new not for profit entity under a long term lease. You would have to get bonds from all the members, double the fees to market rates etc. That would go over great with the community. NOT.
Actually, I would like to see us go to Haddonfield and see if they want to make Crystal Lake their municipal pool too. You see, their community private swim club is conveniently located to over half of Haddonfield. It is natural fit. I know that their is a huge rivalry between towns, but maybe we should consider this just another shared service.
And I still don’t know how we justify a million bucks for a new poolhouse.
BTW, the Marquee is not in any danger of falling down. They fenced it. Why did they need to take it down other than the fact that they have a mission to tear down the theatre much like they tore down the old firehouse and Bessie. If you notice, they didn’t take down any other trees at the Dydee site. Where was the danger there, other than to the fact that we had a historic tree that didn’t fit into a development plan that will probably never be realized (but we lost a tree that was there for the last 10 generations).
Speaking of Dydee, I didn’t see you at the planning board meeting last week. Actually the most interesting part of the night was when Cathy Sulack Riccardi, whose property is subject to the eminent domain actions of our commissioners, asked “What is your plan B?” if the town is unsuccessful in its eminent domain attempts. His response was that he didn’t have one. You can point at the prior administrations all you want, but Randy, John and Paul, our current commissioners, are the ones responsible now for redoing the redevelopment zone that was legally flawed. They had no legal obligation to do that. In fact, they have been proactive in doing that because they knew that if they didn’t they couldn’t keep their campaign promises of “honoring the contract”.
Here is my Dydee prediction. (btw, I hope I am 100% wrong about it but I really don’t think I will be). The town will lose the eminent domain lawsuit within the next 2 years. Fieldstone will terminate the contract and use that as an excuse. They will sue the town for damages and we will be in court for many more years. And you know all the property on Haddon Ave that we paid at least $6 or $7 million for. We will all be the proud owners (to the credit of the commissioners and thanks to the state, most of the environmental issues will be gone) of a property worth maybe at best $4 or $5 million. So you and I will be picking up the tab and probably a lawsuit settlement cost. So if I am right, and truly I hope I am not, we will be paying for taking all these properties for a long time. We could have stopped this a while ago and stopped the financial exposure but our current commissioners continued down this road. Not our prior commissioners.
The pool loses money, doesn’t have a diving pit and needs a new poohouse at cost you don’t know or believe is necessary. Sell it.
People who don’t swim or otherwise use it won’t be subsidizing those who do.. Someone with the capital and ideas necessary to make it a better success can create a recreation facility that will have it’s own waiting list.
Trees are not historic… they’re just trees. And when they’re not healthy, they’re dangerous.
You didn’t see me at the planning board meeting? Would you know me? How?
Before you spin your doom and gloom prognostications (Anonymous! Spell check in Post #83! Stat!) to far down the road, try answering my original question… and let the reader decide if it’s relevant… Could you please post the agreement that shows the prior administration did or did not commit the township? No? I didn’t think so… doesn’t fit your plans
St. Evelyn you are a shill for Randy.
Your spelling errors were pointed out after you posted some comments blasting Cassel for his placement of commas and sentence construction, and then you made a series of posts on sentence diagrams. Go back and read them on this and prior blogs.
The point was merely to ilustrate that your grammatic protestations were just another shill tactic to distract from the real issues. Now you are trying to spin around gain and claim others brought up the spelling errros. You’re a joke.
The theater: your limited capacity for thought has obfuscated the meaning of the posts. The point is Randy talks out both sides of his mouth. He won’t man up and say he wants theater down. He claims to want to save. Yet they issued RFP to remove front. Then he claims they only issued RFP because Engineer told him the marquee was falling.
You see- Randy won’t stand up and take ownership of his actions. He just claims to be in continual reaction to supposed anonymous citizen complaints (parking issue…) or the reports of other ‘experts’.
Poolhouse falling? Bond money. Wasn’t Randy’s idea right? heck they had people waving concrete at a meeting. Good nuff for me. The point is if the pool really is that much of a danger why is it being used today? Can’t have it both ways.
Contract issues with Fieldstone? Again you danced around the main point there : Dougherty himself stated that he did not believe the contract obligated them to seize private property. The article was posted (link to the article.) Once again you dance and yell. But point is when they asked us to vote for them Dougherty said contract did not obligate to take private property. Now you and Randy (coincidence?) say property must be taken due to contract. So was Dougherty’s statement regarding the contract during the campaign wrong? If so, why not stand up and say that?
People have posted links to newspaper articles illustrating the above. But instead of giving a straight answer you just dance to another red-herring point. If Cassel posts the complaint you’ll just dance to something else. You have yet to give a straight answer to anything posted in response to you asking for it. If Cassel posts his complaint you will ask him to next post transcript of court. then you’ll ask him to post supporting documentation. then you’ll ask him to post his original OPRA requests. and the silly dance will go on because that’s what you do. Your but Randy can post the complaint on the township website if you want.
Message for you to give Randy: It’s called leadership. Say what you’re doing and be straight about it. You can’t have it both ways.
Glad you were out fishing last night. You also claimed to be in New Zealand. The only thing that is clear is that you are desparately trying to prop up this administation without giving a straight answer to any of the above. Your actions are very much like Randy’s methods. Interesting… You sure you don’t know him? Nothing gets you posting faster (in response time) then the posts about Randy and Klineburger.
St. Evelyn go look in a mirror real fast and post back if you know Randy. I’m curious what you see in the mirror. You and I both know what I’m talking about.
Anonymous Sycophant (1), do you wear your best tin foil hat on Sundays? Just asking.
I’m a shill and you’re a broken record. What’s your point.
Scroll to the top and search the word “diagram”. I got the message, “Sorry, but you are looking for something that isn’t here.” Maybe you’ll come up with something different.
Anywho, link me to my references of spelling, grammer and/or diagraming sentences and I’ll gladly entertain your sophistry.
Theater, poolhouse, fee increase, tax decrease, increased number of tickets, parking on the streets… I don’t miss your points because they’re all the same… You don’t like the commissioners or town attorney, and every issue you cite is NOTopportunity to discuss the merits, you see thme (I just did that for you) as an opportunity to bad mouth the people elected. Period.
You cite endless examples of the Complaint and how things progress and who is being deposed but post the Complaint and debate it? You can’t. You don’t know how. Every conversation degenerates into name calling and that’s fine because that’s the level you operate at.
Make every excuse you want for not posting the township agreement commiting (or not commiting) the township, for not posting the letter threatening a lawsuit, for not posting the complaint. Bomb throwing is all you know.
Now I’ll leave you to finish wallpapering your room with tin foil. Is it true you have to change the foil every six months or it looses its effect?
The anger of not agreeing with Cassel, Sawchuk and the anon Cassel is so clear on this blog. I came back to see what was up-apparently Tom still rants about the same topics, Sawchuk is still the ex employee who left on her own and does not want her old co-workers to get a raise, and anon-Tom still posts.
Dumping on Teague on this blog so harshly only turns people off. Knowing him personally I can only laugh that St. Evelyn could be him. He does not have the time of day for Cassel in any forum let alone this hateful blog.
The bonded money for the poolhouse has not cost you a dollaw Sawchuk. By the way that Dougherty statement was not quoted properly by the defunct newspaper. They never waivered since running for election. You forget the video still exists out there and your bold face posted incorrect blogs are the reason only three or four people bother to look at this blog. Please look me up Tom but do not call me.
I don’t see where you were in the blog before but in any event I would actually want to see most of my old co-workers receive even a larger increase because they deserve it. The point is not personal it’s a matter of economics and now with everyone suffering due to layoffs, pay freezes, now increases in fees it might have buffered some of negative feelings that are not only reflected in the blog.
By the way Tom does not post as anon.
The poolhouse may not have cost me anything yet.
My blogs are fact. The comments after I make a post I have no control, well I do, but try hard to avoid deletions.
As far as the number of people looking at this blog, you would be surprised!
I am a private citizen and my comments are those of a private citizen, not a public official. Stop pretending otherwise. The commissioners have plenty of opportunity to post here if they choose to but don’t openly.
The only one I have to answer to on my complaint is the judge. The public officials have to answer to the judge and the town. I don’t have to answer to you on this. I can post whatever I want or choose. There is precedent for the town to post the outcome of cases. They posted the Court Opinion on the website relating to Hogan’s lawsuit. Maybe you can encourage them to publish the Court’s opinion on my lawsuit when it is finalized. Honestly, that is all that matters, not your opinion.
Yes, and by the way, I don’t post Anon to Mr. Olson. And frankly, I appreciate that you have posted your opinion.
Regarding the Fieldstone contract, I have asked several times at public meetings for the commissioners to post it on the township website. They won’t. Maybe you can have better luck asking them to post it than I have.
By the way, what did you catch? I do know what kind of bait you use though…. worms.
There you go again. Twist my words to fit your agenda. I didn’t say you were a public official. I agreed you werre a private citizen but YOUR COMMENTS ARE PUBLIC. Do you you need Anonymous Sycophant (1)’s Home Health Aid to explain the difference? He’s busy with his tin foil project so he might be able to spare the Aid.
If the only one you wanted to answer to was the judge, you would leave you comments and analysis in court. You don’t. You bring it to the blog. That makes it fair game. If you’ve got the nerve and can take the heat post your Complaint and defend it.
Fieldstone contract… everytime you want information you OPRA it, but this contract you don’t OPRA. Why? You could shut me up in a heartbeat, but you won’t.
Worms? Ya lost me. I went surfcasting in Spring Lake with my 9yo son hoping to catch a Striped Bass. I used bunker. The score: Striped Bass, 3 baits; St Evelyn, zip
St Evelyn I refer you to your post on June 3rd when you started asking anonymous to diagram sentences
You are a joke. You now try to attribute your own silly-shill distractor arguments to Cassel and anonymous.
Again, you fail to address any issue of substance. If the court finds in favor of Cassel will you then agree that his allegations had merit?
The point of the Fieldstone contract: I just relied on attorney Dougherty’s interpretation offered via that newspaper article. Was his interpetation wrong and if so why not man up and state they changed their minds?
Now you want Cassel to post the Fieldstone Contract and his Complaint. You don’t want an honest discussion. You just want to demand more and more to distract from the issues.
I hope the moderator of the blogs will start to moderate off-topic posts to a separate discussion thread. You should get to have your say, but it should be placed in a separate thread for the whackos that post supporting Teague.
Instead of real debate you just hurl insults at anyone that posts here. You insinuate some anon posters are at home with home health-aids (classy of you), you throw in Hogan’s name just to rally the Bill Park crowd, and you throw darts at Cassel. You are the perfect picture of the Teague supporters. You make the case for me: a group of ‘insiders’ who think their sh** doesn’t stink strutting around telling the rest of us how lucky we are to live here. get over yourselves.
Are you Anonymous Sicophant (1) or Anonymous Sicophant (2)? I get you confused.
Anyway, go back and read the post ya dope.
My comment was a laconic response to anonymous post that was incoherent and made no sense. I simply said diagram your sentences and I might be able to follow your point.
“You now try to attribute your own silly-shill distractor arguments to Cassel and anonymous.” Your tin foil hat must be on too tight cuz I don’t know what you’re talking about.
You want to discuss the merit of his case? Post the Complaint.
Your Fieldstone response is to a comment posted by Mr. Olsen, not me. Direct your remark to him. (Are you drunk when you respond or is it the medication?)
“I hope the moderator of the blogs will start to moderate off-topic posts to a separate discussion thread” Well there ya have it, folks! The clearest evidence I can present that there is no interest in debating the issues comes from Anonymous Sicophant (1) or (2)… Stifle discussion because he is incapable of arguing an issue.
Sorry Charlie, I don’t hurl insults at just anyone.
“some anon posters”? No, just one and I’m not sure if it’s you or not. As to bringing class to the discussion, you are hardly the arbiter.
I didn’t throw in Ms. Hogan’s name. She stepped into the conversation… put the bottle down before you write… I don’t know the Bill Park crowd or what that means… I don’t throw darts or bombs for that matter.
I’ve never contributed money to an election, If writing makes me a supporter, fine.
Group of insiders? ahhh no. I do this on my own because I enjoy it and nobody calls me to compliment me or feed me info. You set the table and I just feed it back to you. You don’t like the garbage? Stop serving it.
You aren’t debating anything. You just want to agitate and insult the people that are trying to have a discussion.
You just implied that I was “drunk” or “on medication”. You say another poster is crazy with a tinfoil hat. You say a poster is a disabled person with a home health aid that just posts all day. and so it goes.
The point is if all you want to do is log on and insult and distract from a real discussion of issues your comments should be put in a separate thread for personal discussions. Most blogs do that.
You don’t address issues. You just insult, shout out non sequitor questions, and then repeat insults when your demands are not met.
St. Evelyn’s posts (any anyone elses) that are off the topic should be moderated to a separate thread so that the rest of us can follow the discussion.
No that s not censorship. Your posts would still be there for you and whoever else wants to get into it with you to duke it out. But that stuff should be a separate discussion thread.
Sorry St. Evelyn but we want to discuss town issues, not your personal feelings towards Cassel or anyone else. If you can’t keep it civil (pun intended) your comments should be in a separate thread.
Jen you should make a St. Evelyn thread and moderate St. Evelyn’s rants there so we can have on-topic discussion.
What debate do you offer: Agree Cassel has a case but don’t show the complaint?
You offer “hey hey ho ho Klineburglar has got to go” but I’m insulting because you, an intellectual cripple require a home health aid to review my remarks?
You must be drunk to state I threw Hogan into the conversation when if you reviewed the blog ( I know it’s inconvenient) you’d see she offered a comment.
If I don’t address issues, it’s because you don’t offer issues.
Remove my comments from this blog and you remove the only dissent going. Go ahead, make my day. I’d wear you bannishment like a badge of honor
To recap for you St. Evelyn, for you to state no issues is ludicrous. You only want to post and distract.
You complain about spin but look at what you just posted It was specifically suggested by me that your comments should remain on the blog, but that you should not be allowed to actively disrupt all other conversation. Personal disputes and mud-throwing should be moved to an ‘off-topic’ forum on the blog. Many other blogs are similar. The goal of this blog is to faciitate open communiation of ideas. You don’t have the right to disrupt that. Dissent away, but you should stay on topic or have you posts put in a rubberroom on the blog. You’ve gone from claiming to not be from the town (you said you lived in New Zealand) to now affecting a new persona. It’s silly.
Regarding your Hogan issue: it is well known that she is active in MENSA. You made post after post about MENSA to drag her into it. You knew what you were doing, and that is why you did it. It strains belief that it was just a coincidence. In fact once you dragged her into it you then made repeated references to her and MENSA.
It’s transparent — give it up. Either join the discusson (pro or con) or move on. All you do is discredit the administration you profess to support with your actions. It’s childish, and if you are half as intelligent as you attempt to emote here you should be embarassed.
Since you asked (and obviously you know the answer):
Issue1: If court finds in favor of Cassel will you have the intellectual integrity to acknowledge that the current administration has acted improperly? The points of his case have been covered in at least 2 newspapers. Debate the points with him if you like – I haven’t seen the case just read the same newspapers as everyone else. If a court agrees with him will you acknowledge the current administration has acted impropertly? Or do the courts not count if they don’t agree with Randy?
Issue 2: The seizure of private property to give to Fieldstone.
Issue 3: The recent increases in fees, including one to park in front of your own house. Lot of homes in our town don’t have driveways (drive through Bettlewood.) The Mayor stated the reason for the change was due to citizen complaints about parking issues and safey. But then why the fees? Also there is no assurance a permit will be granted. This is a real issue for a lot of people, and has generated a lot of discussion on one side of the town.
Issue 4: The state of the Theater — what should be done? If allowed to decay without maintenance there will eventually be no option but to tear it down. Is this the plan? If so, someone should stand up and say “hey, we want to tear down the theater.” It’s a valid argument. Argument to save it also valid. But we should have a real discussion on it. Right now, there is either no plan, or the plan is not being discussed. Inaction with no stated goal is not really a plan.
Issue 5: Issue of towns financial health and fiscal responsibility. As was pointed out by Charlie D. at a meeting, the tax cut is likely offset by the new fees. Add to that the increasing debt load, possibiity of decreased state monies for the forseeable future, this is a looming financial castastrophe.
Don’t wait up for an answer… It’s time for bed… I’ll answer you in the morning.
i did delete the one comment by St Evelyn. I felt it was boarderline racist and that won’t happen on this blog.
Going back and forth is one thing but that went to far
St Evelyn didn’t post it
I apologize to St. Evelyn. He/She did not post the one I deleted and that person has now been blocked.
“To recap for you St. Evelyn, for you to state no issues is ludicrous. You only want to post and distract.”
Denied
“You complain about spin but look at what you just posted It was specifically suggested by me that your comments should remain on the blog, but that you should not be allowed to actively disrupt all other conversation.”
If you move my comments, it’s censorship. Period.
“Personal disputes and mud-throwing should be moved to an ‘off-topic’ forum on the blog. Many other blogs are similar.”
Who decides, you?
“The goal of this blog is to faciitate open communiation of ideas.”
No, it’s not.
“You don’t have the right to disrupt that. Dissent away, but you should stay on topic or have you posts put in a rubberroom on the blog.”
You don’t like my posts? Too bad.
“You’ve gone from claiming to not be from the town (you said you lived in New Zealand)”
IT WAS A JOKE!
“to now affecting a new persona.It’s silly.”
What new persona?
“Regarding your Hogan issue:”
Excuse me? My Hogan issue? Do read the blog before you write? HOGAN POSTED A COMMENT!
“it is well known that she is active in MENSA.”
It is not well known to me.
“You made post after post about MENSA to drag her into it.”
I made a post about you not being smart enough to clear the table at MENSA meeting… a fact you seem want to prove desperately
“You knew what you were doing, and that is why you did it.”
That’s some brilliant insight.
“It strains belief that it was just a coincidence.”
It does? That’s too bad.
“In fact once you dragged her into it”
I didn’t drag her anywhere. She walked into it WITH HER OWN POST!
“you then made repeated references to her and MENSA.”
I repeated her post… She will be co-hosting the next dinner meeting of MENSA, on Friday, August 7, 6:00, at the Coastline Restaurant on Brace Road in Cherry Hill.
“It’s transparent — give it up. Either join the discusson (pro or con) or move on. All you do is discredit the administration you profess to support with your actions. It’s childish,…”
Hey hey ho ho Klineburglar has got to go? That’s the adult appoach you want to employ?
“and if you are half as intelligent as you attempt to emote here you should be embarassed.”
I’m embarrassed for you…. After reading your remarks so far I can only conclude you believe you know who I am. You don’t have a clue. You’re not even close to knowing. If you would concetrate on WHAT I write and not WHO wrote it, we might be able to have a conversation.
“Since you asked (and obviously you know the answer):”
I don’t know what you’re trying to say
“Issue1: If court finds in favor of Cassel will you have the intellectual integrity to acknowledge that the current administration has acted improperly? The points of his case have been covered in at least 2 newspapers. Debate the points with him if you like – I haven’t seen the case just read the same newspapers as everyone else. If a court agrees with him will you acknowledge the current administration has acted impropertly? Or do the courts not count if they don’t agree with Randy?”
Post the complaint and we can discuss the complaint, but I will not cede a point if you won’t produce the Complaint for review. You don’t expect it of the judge, don’t expect it of me.
“Issue 2: The seizure of private property to give to Fieldstone.”
Produce the Fieldstone contract and let’s see what it says
“Issue 3: The recent increases in fees, including one to park in front of your own house. Lot of homes in our town don’t have driveways (drive through Bettlewood.)”
I already said, if you don’t have a driveway, you should not be penalized.
“The Mayor stated the reason for the change was due to citizen complaints about parking issues and safey. But then why the fees? “
If you use services (parking on the street) and charging for it is legal, it’s acceptable. If you don’t like it, start a petition drive and overturn the law.
“Also there is no assurance a permit will be granted.”
You’re complaining about something that has not happened. It’s pointless.
“This is a real issue for a lot of people, and has generated a lot of discussion on one side of the town.”
Umm, OK?
“Issue 4: The state of the Theater — what should be done?”
Dump it.
“If allowed to decay without maintenance there will eventually be no option but to tear it down. Is this the plan? If so, someone should stand up and say “hey, we want to tear down the theater.”…”
I just did.
“It’s a valid argument. Argument to save it also valid. But we should have a real discussion on it. Right now, there is either no plan, or the plan is not being discussed. Inaction with no stated goal is not really a plan.”
Time moves on and everything that’s nice in the world doesn’t get to move on with it. If you think the Theater is worth saving, fine. I don’t think salvaging a building that is past it’s prime is the role of government. Sell it to someone who can and will do something or take it down and move on.
“Issue 5: Issue of towns financial health and fiscal responsibility. As was pointed out by Charlie D. at a meeting, the tax cut is likely offset by the new fees. Add to that the increasing debt load, possibiity of decreased state monies for the forseeable future, this is a looming financial castastrophe.”
It’s a problem for every town
” “You knew what you were doing, and that is why you did it.”
That’s some brilliant insight. ”
That is a really funny one!
To answer both anon and St. Evelyn…while I feel some of this back and forth is childish I will not block posts.
2 people have been blocked…one for constant reptitive posts and one for using someone’s name along with posting unacceptable content.
I am looking for a new topic of interest. Any suggestions are welcome.
My 2-cents: I would welcome a positive exchange about the kinds of things we could be doing through the township to make HT a more forward leaning and successful community – economically, culturally, etc..
The back and forths with all the various suspicions and accusations don’t much interest me. They’re just not very productive.
How about a topic on suggestions to save the town more money.